- Interviews 2009-2010
- I. Background and relationships
- Ii. Ideological residency and practice
- Iii. Destiny and life laws
- Iv. God or a larger, orderly body
- v. Health, ill health and care
- we. Faith and knowledge
- Vii. Visions and goals of the future
- Summary i-vii
"If there's going to be some fucking justice in the universe, it's got to be like karma. And if karma is to work, there must be reincarnation as well."
What the interviewees say about how life works and why life turns out the way it is.
Death is not the end. We live forever. The reincarnation idea is about people coming back to the physical world time and time again. This idea is known from Hinduism, for example. Unlike some other models of rebirth, the new doctrine of reincarnation is a very "positive" one, which guarantees the individual uninterrupted development. This doctrine is perceived as more sophisticated or consistently compared to other variants. Man has once been an animal, but it is not possible for him to now be reborn in an animal body: "No, there are the Buddhists, and especially the Hindus, they incarnat a little anyway. You become an ant or a blade of grass or a tree or whatever the hell." "You're human all the time, because like animals, you've been another time, it's passed." "This theory of hope… You can be anything, at any time." "No, in Buddhism and Hinduism, that you… If you don't do it right, you're reborn, you get backing up like… Maybe it's reborn as a fly or something."
There is a difference between soul migration and reincarnation:
As I've learned, then you went back and forth, between all sorts of things, could become an ant in one, and an elephant in the next, and a little like that… Yes, but, and then there's more soul migration. The reincarnation idea where I've been in contact with that one, you want to see more this progression.
The individual is reborn in a new human body and will then bring with him all the qualities and talents that he had in her previous life. She has all previous experiences to spare and the new life will be colored by the past. How long passes between incarnations, respondents have different bids for, from a few years to several hundred years. Likewise, whether it is the case that the individual switches gender between lives, retains the same sex, or if this may vary. The idea of reincarnation is also consistent with a general conviction that everything is connected and indestructible:
We can't just die, we can only change shape. And that all life is connected. There is a unit… Yes, let's say this. If we think of a hologram, that is, that everything is kind of related to everything else. You know, if you break a hologram, you can look in a little bit… You have all the information in the whole picture. That's pretty much how I see it.
Perhaps the individual is reborn in another culture or in another country. The determining factors are what level of sophistication the individual has achieved in his previous lives, what he has left to learn, and what environment or fate can best satisfy this.
The new spirituality describes a spirit evolution against perfection. However, we do not have the same experiences at the same time. Some have progressed further, while others have not yet come so far in their development. This means that there is a natural hierarchy between people. This relationship can be described as having "younger" and "older" souls, respectively. A child born may, spiritually speaking, be older than his parents. One interviewee describes how she could very clearly have imagined that this would be the case with one of her grandchildren: "It is an old soul and very special". Cultures and ethnic groups are also at different levels in this spiritual evolution. A people involved in many wars, or a society with a lower degree of rule of law or equality, is not as far away as those who are more peaceful.
A common objection to the reincarnation idea is that it seems so unlikely that one could get back into a new body. Against this it is possible to set experiences of the miracles of ordinary life:
On the other hand, we have seen the creation of a human being. Now I have two children of my own, who are adults now, but only the human life itself is so fucking strange. Why couldn't we be born again? Once is strange enough, right?
Change gender, or same sex
One respondent refers to what the "esoteric teachings" or "traditions" say in the question: "And it is sometimes said that as a personality you are born really as much as a man and as much as a woman. And not necessarily the fact that you are born every other life like one or the other." "And then whether you're a man or a woman, it's not like that, it doesn't have to be that way for every incarnation, but it could be that it jumps or, well, one time you're a woman, the other time you're a man." Male and female are described as "archetytypical principles":
That man is nevertheless a unit in itself and that actually the division of male and female in the aspects we have today is that it is the result of a case, a division of the original state. But that there is still some kind of cosmic principles that are male and female on another level and that there may somehow remain. But that you should be human, i.e. as we are biologically male and female for example, I see that it is only a temporary… a result of an imperfect condition, so to speak. For the perfect, more is this classic myth that you are androgynous… Sorry, let's see here… Hermaphrodit, that is, that you are a man-woman.
One of the interviewees refers to two channeled spirits, who have slightly different views on this. While Ambres believes that the individual has series of life as either male or female, Set claims that everything goes on at the same time:
Ambres says this. Wait, wait. He said you stick to… For example, if you choose to become a man… You become a woman until you turn around and become a woman. Then there are the different commandments… Then there's The Set, which says, "No, but it's different, so… In fact, we all live lives at the same time. Why should we have to think linearly at all? If you're thinking… Just a picture like this… in the middle, and you have different rooms. Different as well as rooms around like this, as the soul enters, are different lives.
There are laws in areas where we don't normally think there are laws. We are familiar with the physical and biological laws, but not such laws that guarantee overall fairness and the like. Society has a legal system for such things, but similar laws also exist in life in general. Everything that people do has consequences. Sometimes it's just so complex that we don't understand or see these connections. The Law of Karma is referred to in the Bible as "the law of sowing and harvesting" However, other statements about reincarnation have been edited out of the Bible, making it difficult to understand what is actually meant. There are people who seemingly sow and sow, without getting anything back, or reap much misery without seeing any reason for this. Karma is needed to explain this.
The Church's view of God's grace is rejected: "Well it is more poetic, and much simpler. It's not that laborious." It is only when we have learned that the consequences of a wrong course of action and refrain from repeating what we may experience something reminiscent of the "forgiveness of sins": "It is the only grace that exists at all when we have come so far that through development we can no longer do the same act that triggered that karma. Then we're protected. That is the real grace."
At the same time, the law of karma is mechanical in some sense. It is a law of nature, while being adapted to needs. However, if we make mistakes, the consequences of our actions can be very painful. Here the law of karma can be likened to an "Old Testament" law:
So it comes to a certain extent, and unfortunately it is then, so to speak, the law of karma that comes in… It's this Old Testament law that comes in. If you go too far down that direction, then there will be a judgment… and it is to prevent it from going … Yes, it's kind of like a parent that when a child does too much then he finally has to say, or she, like say something sharply.
"Karma then, that is, the law of cause and effect. If we don't have it, you can't understand anything." We cannot fail to experience and thus develop. "We cannot help but evolve as we exist. We do experiences every day, of different kinds, and this accumulates in different ways in us." "What you sow it, you reap. If you don't do it in this life, what's the name of it, it will be in the next life."
The Law of Karma is not just about what the individual does or does not do. In equal measure, the thoughts are destiny-making. What you think and feel does not stop on the inside, but will have an effect on the outside world. This also entails a great responsibility: "All the thoughts you think, all the words you say and all the actions you do, ALL that is energy that kind of moves around the universe. And very much negative thoughts and evil thoughts, just like evil acts, they do harm." The individual seeks out situations and relationships where she can work on what she needs to work on:
If I just think freely… So it may be that you know that you have a certain problem, and that you want to break that pattern or problem, so you put yourself in a situation where you know you can solve it… If you know that you are at a disadvantage with a person, for example, well then you go in and find out why I end up at a disadvantage. Maybe it's about self-worth. You need to start loving yourself. And once you've done that, you don't see those men or women anymore, because it's finished, it's over, it's passed. You don't have to learn anymore.
And then synchronicity… Very important… Because that's when you get feedback. When you have a good day, when there's a lot of synchronicity… A lot of coincidences like this… Wow, I just met the right people… It clicked there… Then you will get feedback that you are on the right path. But then when things go a long way, you get feedback, no but now you're a little lost as well, and now you have to try to focus. Because there's a lot going on in life, and it's not always so good every day.
One of the interviewees tells of a reincarnation memory, where a man subjected her to severe abuse. In this life, she has seen this person again and it has been a complicated relationship. However, she would object that she would have been a victim at the time: "And then I meet this guy in this life, and it was HE like. I wonder it went wrong and he didn't put me through it. We exposed each other." Several interviewees refer to the Christian notion of Jesus' vicarious suffering on the cross. This is referred to as "the greatest error of Christianity". It is based on an image of God as primitive and avenging, according to one respondent, and where the understanding of things like karma and reincarnation is lacking:
Is God so fucking primitive, he has to be appeased… God as a primitive and avenging being. If there's going to be some fucking justice in the universe, it's got to be like karma. And if karma is to work, there must be reincarnation as well.
The view that someone can be a victim, while someone else is a perpetrator, is misleading. We all suffer from a lack of experience that links us together:
This view that we have in society, that there is a perpetrator and a victim, it is also wrong. Both suffer equally. And it is very provocative, that is, in it, because here there is because in this society everyone wants scapegoats and everyone wants to feel sorry for the victim and so on. And it would be very difficult to say to a rape victim, for example, but I am convinced that it is.
One of the interviewees describes this principle very strongly, but adds that this can be perceived as well harsh: "That you suffer because you do not have the tools that make you NOT suffer. And that sounds very harsh." "You might think it's cruel to hit yourself when you fall." "From my point of view, if I may express myself so presumptuously, there are… There is no malice in the fact that this happens… Seemingly bad or bad things. But there is a reason why evil happens."
Gross misressuries, and their more severe repercussions, will also give the individual a forced development: "If I do something really stupid, I force my development, because the consequences will be so very strong."
We plan our own incarnation.
The individual plans or at least approves for himself how life will be, what experiences he or she will be allowed to do. On the eve of a new incarnation, the individual fully understands what life will be like. This is likened to her then, with an adult's perspective, making a plan:
And before you get into… Yes, or before you allow yourself to be born, or anywhere, you have made a plan what will happen, what to learn. Mortality is a learning place simply for all people. And then you've made some kind of plan… Who to live with, and yes.
This requires an advanced planning: "The parents, and siblings, and one's children. And when you start thinking about it, it gets incredibly complicated. If you start thinking. That it is so for all people, and how can it be connected.
Sometimes you can choose between having a harder or easier life, but the individual may still choose a life with greater difficulties. Possibly to try to fix "a pattern" that characterized previous incarnations:
That is the big goal of getting as far as possible. If you don't get all the way in this life, you can continue in the next life. Well, it could be that you… If I just think freely… So it may be that you know that you have a certain problem, and that you want to break that pattern or problem, so you put yourself in a situation where you know you can solve it.
So it is not only that each person gets to experience exactly what he or she needs to experience, but we choose it ourselves:
As many people say, life is hard. But you really choose it yourself. There's black and white, and there are possibilities, really, just that you can't see it right now because you're staring blindly at the problem… As many people say, yes, I've lived in poverty and misery, and I find the wrong partner all the time, and economics and all this. But you choose, and you also control this. So you have an opportunity before you come, to end up with a family that suits you right now.
We also have opportunities there to steer to get to another place, even if we say this, that we, well now I am tired of being the poor constantly. Now maybe I want to come to some family where there's plenty of money, and that I get to study, and so on. But I'm not sure it'll be that part anyway, because when you sit there and see through, there's always some team or how to put it, someone else talking about, that this and this is how you lived last life, and you have to keep testing yourself, to get better, or gain more knowledge or whatever it may be.
In this way, innate handicaps and limitations also get an explanation:
A lot of people say that you kind of decide for yourself. Now I'm going to do a lap with someone, something you're going to work on… And like, for example, those who are born and are wheelchair users, for example, that they have then kind of decided, that now I will take that match, because then they come through the next life as completely new people… But it's a pretty tough match then.
One respondent says of the similarities he finds in himself and his parents: "But it's not their qualities I've inherited… It's my own… But then it fits very well into their common set, psychic gene set, or whatever to call it."
As a parent, it is also possible to think that the children have chosen oneself as a parent. They have fully understled their weaknesses and strengths.
Before and after life
At the beginning of pregnancy, the soul can make sporadic visits inside the mother's body: "She came to the conclusion that the soul was kind of in and turned a little sometimes the first six months, but then I think it was from the seventh month, then like the soul stayed there then, in the baby then, because then it was time then." After we die, we need to be confronted with what has gone well and badly in life. One respondent perceives that her father, who recently passed away, had a difficult time in the transition:
So it takes a while before you've kind of gotten through life up there, then when you've got up there. So, more messy lives, or… you've done it like, the longer it takes to go through this and sum up, and understand, and learn, what went wrong and so on. He was having a hard time for a while, as far as I could tell.
Life as a School
In the interview material there are many metaphors for life. This can be likened to "a school" or "a test site". Life is a "path of experience", "an educational process", "a great theatre" and "a sandbox".
I see this whole world as a kind of school, a great theater. And if no one really dies, but if everyone is eternal, unique, identity perspectives, from different parts of the universe, and your body dies, but you go on /somewhere else, then like death will not be as serious and great. I can't see it like I once did when I was young. Death is black and you are gone. I can't see it that way now.
Everything we experience is directed at us personally. We can learn from all our experiences. Even things that affect people around us are at the same time intricately intertwined with our own destiny and are part of what is meant for us to experience. One of the respondents reflects that she has had many friends and relatives who have died:
I've thought many times, why do I have so many people dying? Because there's always someone dying. At least one, two, three a year. So that even if it's not really tight friends, but still, it touches. So that… Of course I've thought about it many times, but then I say this, yes, but it's because I have to be tried, to see things, and be able to work on it.
Over the course of many incarnations, the individual will have time to acquire complete experience material. This can be likened to "a cake" that eventually needs to be eaten. Faced with a new incarnation, the individual can decide on a certain "piece of cake", and then have this particular amount of experience completed:
As she told me, it's like a cake, you could say… And then maybe in a life you decide, now I take that cake, and then learn, about jealousy or something like this then. And then, like when you've learned the first lap, it's in another life, you pick up a little more, and get a bigger and bigger part of the cake. But then you have a lot of cake pieces left, so you have quite a lot of lives to get through then, before you have learned everything.
Things we don't manage to solve in this life accompany us to the next, much like it is in school when you get to backtrack on something. One of the informants reflects on one of his parents:
I think, what to learn. You're going to somehow get rid of these patterns. So I'm sure he went into this life with some kind of contract, that now I'm going to do better. He did better, and he didn't. He succeeded and failed, as is certain in every life. You get to backtrack as well as on certain things.
The slow pace of development also provides the opportunity to practice an artistic talent, for example. Johann Amadeus Mozart is mentioned by a couple of respondents as an example of someone whose great musical talent can be explained by the fact that he has been doing this for many lives. His increasing musical ability has since been brought to the next life as "a kind of psychic DNA, or spiritual DNA." "Genius is not something that you just plupp is born with, but it is something that you have practiced for a long time. Mozart just wasn't born that way."
The meaning of suffering
The difficult experience is necessary for our development. The painful experiences are needed to provide contrasts. One interviewee describes the suffering as: "the uncomfortably good, because it is as necessary as light, light and darkness are just as necessary."
That we act wrongly, that is, in a way that causes others and ourselves pain, is due to ignorance or incomprehension and deeply due to a lack of experience. Difficulties in life can be likened to pain in the body. They are "a wake-up call", a reminder that we need to change something. For example, one of the interviewees describes his ex-partner as "his big sledgehammer". In the end, she managed to get out of this violent relationship and can today see it in an explanatory light. After all, it was these experiences that made her take hold of her life:
This thing that I went through then, with N as he is called then, he who was a little aggressive, it made me step a giant piece as a human being, which I would never have done otherwise if I had lived in my first relationship and gone there in the villa in S, with my children and my old man and everything was fine, We had a boat and… yes… Then nothing happened. It wasn't until I met him that it was… And then things started to happen. So I've seen what it can do. So I am convinced that there is no other way to develop.
Suffering is the engine of our development: "That's all we learn. If life flows and everything goes well, you don't have to think about anything." In the long run, their own experiences provide an ability to experience with others who have difficulty in the same field:
You are limited there how much pain you can experience and see in another person, depending on whether you can appeal it to your own experiences. And the more experience of suffering you have, the more ability to detect suffering in other people you also get, and then it also makes you not want to cause suffering. Before you have it, you suffer without realizing that you are doing it. You don't have that suffering yourself and you don't realize you're doing it to the other. But if I have that suffering in me, it wakes up… It hurts me if I have anything else. Instead, you want to do good to someone else.